LS7 - Page 2

Stumpy · 04-26-2005, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 340.29m/s

Typical ricer talk.

I would take a big OHV engine over a small DOHC any day of the week.

So... still... how big do you think things should get then?

340.29m/s · 04-26-2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black RSX

So... still... how big do you think things should get then?

The bigger the better. If you can get a 15L engine out of that same LS7 block - awesome!

Remember, they are not adding weight... they are using the same (basically) block design and just boring it out some and making a longer stroke.

I definitely don't want to see big, heavy big blocks. But why not get 7.0L instead of 6.0L out of the same basic design? The external dimensions are the same and weight is going to be very close.

A 7.0L engine making 500HP will not take more gas than a 4.0L engine making 500HP (assuming TQ curves were the same *note, they wouldn't be*)

The real question is.... what is too small. (IE: requires high RPMs, turbos, and weight reduction)

FallenPhoenix · 04-26-2005, 04:19 PM

they'll never be able to get 7.0 litres out of the small block. They're really pushing the envelope with 6.0 litres.

Give me two wheels and a small DOHC over 4 and a big pushrod anyday

340.29m/s · 04-26-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenPhoenix

they'll never be able to get 7.0 litres out of the small block.

Did you even read page 1?

They already got 7.0 liters. The LS7 is a bored/stroked LS2.

I do agree that a 3 valve head would definitely help, but that can still be done with the small, light OHV/pushrod design.

Note: I have a 32V DOHC - It is a great engine, but I can see the postitives that a OHV engine can offer.

**jdv** · 04-26-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black RSX

So how big is too big?? 7.5, 8.0, 8.5, 9.0??????

Just seems like they just keep making it bigger and bigger instead of trying to just get more out of what they already have...

I wonder how much power Honda could get out of a 7.0L engine...

(Course it would have no torque... but hey..

)

As long as they can keep gas mileage decent and pass emissions, they should try to make it as big as they could. Honda wouldnt make any more power than any other American company with, the LS7 has a lot of research and development into it and it's very technologically advanced, They're not using something Ford developed 40 years ago.

When it comes to N/A, bigger is better. They need to keep pushing the envelope or they'll just become another production company like Toyota that under powered, non performance oriented boring cars in the mass.

And no kidding its not boost friendly, the engine is not designed to run boost, its designed for a N/A application, primarly what Corvettes have always been, with the exception of the super corvettes.

**jdv** · 04-26-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 340.29m/s

Typical ricer talk.

DOHC would add lots of weight up high and make the entire thing much bigger (physically.) I think it is awesome what they are still doing with pushrod engines! I can just about promise you that it wont take much to get lots more power out of this. Just by the parts listed, you should be able to make atleast 550 or so... GM just has something in there holding it up. (Probably for gas mileage, insurance, CAFE, etc)

I would take a big OHV engine over a small DOHC any day of the week.

The LS7 has a redline of 7,000rpms. This is amazing for a push rod engine. Pushrods are not old technology by any means, neither is this engine. GM is perfecting what they've always been doing, and anyone who would denote them as not using any technology in their engines by using pushrods should step up to the plate and prove that DOHC and v-tec has the ability to produce more power.

**jdv** · 04-26-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenPhoenix

they'll never be able to get 7.0 litres out of the small block. They're really pushing the envelope with 6.0 litres.

Give me two wheels and a small DOHC over 4 and a big pushrod anyday

v-twin torque > *

swifttiger05 · 04-26-2005, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadesville

The LS7 has a redline of 7,000rpms. This is amazing for a push rod engine. Pushrods are not old technology by any means, neither is this engine. GM is perfecting what they've always been doing, and anyone who would denote them as not using any technology in their engines by using pushrods should step up to the plate and prove that DOHC and v-tec has the ability to produce more power.

the bible could not say it better jades

FallenPhoenix · 04-26-2005, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 340.29m/s

Did you even read page 1?

They already got 7.0 liters. The LS7 is a bored/stroked LS2.

I do agree that a 3 valve head would definitely help, but that can still be done with the small, light OHV/pushrod design.

Note: I have a 32V DOHC - It is a great engine, but I can see the postitives that a OHV engine can offer.

oh shit, I confused 427 = 7.0 with 427 = 6.0

Damn you American measurements

FallenPhoenix · 04-26-2005, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadesville

The LS7 has a redline of 7,000rpms. This is amazing for a push rod engine. Pushrods are not old technology by any means, neither is this engine. GM is perfecting what they've always been doing, and anyone who would denote them as not using any technology in their engines by using pushrods should step up to the plate and prove that DOHC and v-tec has the ability to produce more power.

developed to the same point, OHC engines can rev higher than pushrod, pushrods introduce a force that does not need to be there. You don't see DOHC engines being pushed higher because no one wants to rev the piss out of an engine to go fast. It's the difference between a Diesel pickup and an S2000. The diesel stays in the low RPMs and can go fast, the S2000 revs to 9k to do the same thing.

**jdv** · 04-26-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenPhoenix

developed to the same point, OHC engines can rev higher than pushrod, pushrods introduce a force that does not need to be there. You don't see DOHC engines being pushed higher because no one wants to rev the piss out of an engine to go fast. It's the difference between a Diesel pickup and an S2000. The diesel stays in the low RPMs and can go fast, the S2000 revs to 9k to do the same thing.

It's not neccessary for a pushrod V8 to rev high because it makes all of its power in its bottom end. a 400ft/lbs of tq V8 engine at 4000rpms is superior to an I4 that makes 400ft/lbs of tq at 8000rpms.

FallenPhoenix · 04-26-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadesville

It's not neccessary for a pushrod V8 to rev high because it makes all of its power in its bottom end. a 400ft/lbs of tq V8 engine at 4000rpms is superior to an I4 that makes 400ft/lbs of tq at 8000rpms.

you're replacing torque for HP (I said power bah)

Cars that rev higher simply have lower rear gears. When gears are matched to the engine, who cares where the power is in racing? On the street, yea long stroke large ci is 'better'

340.29m/s · 04-26-2005, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenPhoenix

you're replacing torque for HP (I said power bah)

Cars that rev higher simply have lower rear gears. When gears are matched to the engine, who cares where the power is in racing? On the street, yea long stroke large ci is 'better'

I think you lost.

This coming from a bunch of (excluding DBF's BF) OHC guys.

Obviously they are doing something right, too bad management sucks and they can't build a good car around the engine*.

*As always, not counting the 'Vette or most of Caddy's offerings.

FallenPhoenix · 04-26-2005, 09:13 PM

I don't know how I even got on this side

All I said was 'damn, GM can make an engine'

**jdv** · 04-26-2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenPhoenix

you're replacing torque for HP (I said power bah)

Cars that rev higher simply have lower rear gears. When gears are matched to the engine, who cares where the power is in racing? On the street, yea long stroke large ci is 'better'

HP is just a unit of measurment at the rate of which power is created. It doesn't matter what type of racing you do, you need torque, if you had no torque, the car wouldn't move. HP is basically a number you lie to your friends and is used for marketing.

FallenPhoenix · 04-26-2005, 11:01 PM

HP is a mathematical function of torque. The actual numbers don't mean near as much as the graph itself.

**jdv** · 04-26-2005, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenPhoenix

HP is a mathematical function of torque. The actual numbers don't mean near as much as the graph itself.

I just said that.

And I said that, a 400ft/lbs at 4000 is more impressive than 8000

swifttiger05 · 04-27-2005, 08:48 AM

No torque no move

ryanrule · 04-27-2005, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swifttiger05

No torque no move

thanks urg

**jdv** · 04-27-2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenPhoenix

I don't know how I even got on this side

All I said was 'damn, GM can make an engine'

You're trying to reword everyone's argument and you're confused weither or not you agree with them when you do

FallenPhoenix · 04-27-2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadesville

I just said that.

And I said that, a 400ft/lbs at 4000 is more impressive than 8000

Depends on what you're talking about. If you're on the street yea, low torque is good. If you're on a track then torque higher up is good.

**jdv** · 04-29-2005, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenPhoenix

Depends on what you're talking about. If you're on the street yea, low torque is good. If you're on a track then torque higher up is good.

340.29m/s · 04-30-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadesville

On the track, having a higher redline (hopefully with a flat TQ curve all the way up) means you can take better advantage of gearing.

Technically, at the track, as long as you have a wide TQ range... it doesn't matter where it's at. All you have to do is gear the car to take advantage of that range.

There are much better explanations of this, lemme look real quick.

Read >> http://www.modulardepot.com/?show=articlesdet&aid=44

**jdv** · 04-30-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 340.29m/s

On the track, having a higher redline (hopefully with a flat TQ curve all the way up) means you can take better advantage of gearing.

Technically, at the track, as long as you have a wide TQ range... it doesn't matter where it's at. All you have to do is gear the car to take advantage of that range.

There are much better explanations of this, lemme look real quick.

Read >> http://www.modulardepot.com/?show=articlesdet&aid=44

I already knew this.

You guys are one confusing bunch of people.

340.29m/s · 04-30-2005, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadesville

I already knew this.

You guys are one confusing bunch of people.

I was just posting what he was talking about. After he said it, you had the

Oh what the hell....

ALL HAIL THE LS7!

04-26-2005, 04:19 PM	#28
FallenPhoenix Blah blah blah final five blah blah Breakout Champion! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: College Station Tx Posts: 8,628	they'll never be able to get 7.0 litres out of the small block. They're really pushing the envelope with 6.0 litres. Give me two wheels and a small DOHC over 4 and a big pushrod anyday __________________ The views and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of DarkMesa, it's owners, or polar bears in general. rawr copyright 2006, phoenix Sinanym.com - My Blog Wiki40k.com - Warhammer 40k Wiki project

04-26-2005, 09:13 PM	#39
FallenPhoenix Blah blah blah final five blah blah Breakout Champion! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: College Station Tx Posts: 8,628	I don't know how I even got on this side All I said was 'damn, GM can make an engine' __________________ The views and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of DarkMesa, it's owners, or polar bears in general. rawr copyright 2006, phoenix Sinanym.com - My Blog Wiki40k.com - Warhammer 40k Wiki project

04-26-2005, 11:01 PM	#41
FallenPhoenix Blah blah blah final five blah blah Breakout Champion! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: College Station Tx Posts: 8,628	HP is a mathematical function of torque. The actual numbers don't mean near as much as the graph itself. __________________ The views and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of DarkMesa, it's owners, or polar bears in general. rawr copyright 2006, phoenix Sinanym.com - My Blog Wiki40k.com - Warhammer 40k Wiki project

04-27-2005, 08:48 AM	#43
swifttiger05 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: If you only knew Posts: 628	No torque no move __________________ Q.What doesn't belong in this list : Meat, Eggs, Wife, Blowjob? A. Blowjob: You can beat your meat, eggs or wife, but you can't beat a blowjob. Q. What's the difference between your paycheck and your cock? A. You don't have to beg your wife to blow your paycheck!

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